5. Are king tigers unplayable? while proclaiming yourself in some sort of 'neutral good' position. I like Abandoned Factory, I think Middle East is trash. Not sure why, maybe it's a new bug or there's a spall shield I'm unaware of, but it's really annoying. For instance: in the M18's case, this is manifest in its far greater bounciness. Also since ground ai. That is impossible, you need somewhat of a team. Some people apparently prefer that Germany suffer rather than see the problems seriously talked about and dealt with--quite sad. The rest including pz iv and pz 3 is pretty balanced in my opinion. When it comes to the points I made about the armor, I have had my AMX-13 bounce off the side turret numerous times, it really is that thick. Thread seems to highlight points some might see as a way to improve gameplay. Eh, the significance of this is overstated. Grant was buried on 4 December 1995 at the cemetery opposite his mansion, with the funeral service held at St Peter and St Paul's Church, Hailsham, East Sussex. By observation, I guess, a lot of players dont do this. The long 88 can kill the Cent before it can point precisely on its turret cheek. Uptier your Panthers that can't even penetrate the side of the T__ turret? I myself often wonder why German players don't just take out their CAS when playing against 5.7-7.7 brits for example, since most of the brit tanks at that level can be easily penned even by .50 cal weapons from the air. As a seasoned German player, I can tell you their firepower is at least as valuable as the Allies' speed. But like I've said, this is not an issue affecting only Germany. Just because there would be more open maps doesn't mean we can't have CQC maps. Apds still has a low damage output. There's only one brit 6.7 with atgms, but theres like 5 total with stabs and apds, Also no, the long 88 does not go through T__ tanks with ease, you have to shoot for weakspots which is quite difficultif the enemy is moving or at long range. It is however annoying still though. Ok, so you don't agree that it is easier to flank with small and fast vehicles? Forming a wide line and covering each other. Powered by Invision Community. He can just wait till you start to cap and go around you. The Tiger II's gun is stabilized but it doesn't bounce. Just hide behind a hill or a tree and wait till the panther finally arrives, and then shoot that big juicy target in the side (i do that all the time, the best vehicle to kill king tigers is actually the M56 Scorpion). In real life, German cats had a more advanced system/concept known as regenerative steering, this is vastly more energy efficient and especially useful for these heavy late wartanks, and other tanks after the war. But you can reach it fast enough as it'll be on your quarter of the map, the faster tank is the one whoneeds the half map. You can't aim when they shot in your direction. And no matter what is the br setting whatever times you get a new vehicle even at 8.7 you have to start the whole thing again. 25 best luchs images in 2020 panzer ii military. Oh and by the way, many people do drive BT5s and M18 on high tiers because they are freaking fast and their guns can pen flanks of more modern tanks. I haven't shared your issues i go through a T series and it dies normally and I'm more prone to freak out if a IS-6 rolls over a hill than a T series. These same players will often say that German vehicles lesser mobility means the Germans simply cannot compete with the more nimble Allied vehicles--ignoring Germanys other merits. War Thunder trading. Germany has access to the P-47 the same way the US has access to the 109 and 190. You don't need to win the match in the first 5 minutes of the game, late games are a thing. True, I had the T-44 in mind when I made that post though. Selling Top German/UK Tank and Plane & US Top plane with many Premium. Sohow exactly do I do that? I just read this post and simply had to react because you draw all the wrong conclusions. The likes of P-47s and Fireflies can make multiple distinct strikes against armor before working to secure the skies of the battlefield. A Do335 can do a lot of damage when left alone, but stands utterly no chance of outflying a P-47. You won't have the same luxury. Thats why the Germans tend to be passive. Relative merit is in play here. The Germany newbies will complain that their chosen tank sucks and the Germany veterans are in their meta premiums taking out entire enemy teams. It allows for the a pilot to manually set several engine-related perks on the aircraft while on the fly, with the most important being the radiator and the fuel mixture. All trademarks, logos and brand names are the property of their respective owners. Powered by Invision Community, Addressing Germany's real problems: finding the truth behind "Germany suffers!". The latter is mostly forgotten as in this gamewe currently only have a very basic steering system wherethey turn by applying breaks to one track to initiate the turn. Even then you aren't going to see UK tanks in 100% of your matches. 3 . An Panther however loses his main advantage of better armor. Nah, Freeaboos bash on Germany when its day in Murica and Wheraboos say Deutschland suffers when its day in Yurop (although the Wheraboos are mostly on the Forums and not on Reddit so you don't see Wheraboo posts often) . Yes, with an M18 I am also eaily killed from the front due to lack of armor. With this you will keep your RPM high and get moving fast. I will keep the scope of this topic to relate to BRs 1.0 to 7.0 in RB, with the primary emphasis being on 4.X-5.X. Tried to flank with the Tortoise? As a mainly (90% of battles or more) German player I have to debunk one thing. I don't feel I need assume such things as this is already quite relevant to my interests. NO 4.3 FRENCH TANKS? Nope you leave them to their own meansor use them as bait if you want to be a jerk about it. If anyone has any genuine strategy for killing T__ I'm all ears. There is no tech tree 6.7 medium tank now, what are you supposed to play if not a Tiger II? panzer ii light tank military history. You have the turret, lfp, and anywhere on the hull as long as you don't hit the tracks. The AR with no armor, lackluster speed, no guns, or perhaps the TA which can only do bomber hunting and perhaps a few light vehicles however with limited ammo and frail frame it will get eaten by .50 CAL You can check the loadout options, you either have to pick a fighter, bomber or an attacker, there are no multi task missile and bomb armed super props that can wreck havoc on the ground and then dominate the sky. Noone does the same with panthers. So, lets dive in to look at some of the most common claims: One of the most common complaints that is leveled against the nation of Germany is a perceived lack of mobility. Interesting thing about predicting the predictable itshighly accurate. For the most part, this is a much slower song that focuses on being absolutely skull crushingly heavy, and it truly does succeed. All trademarks, logos and brand names are the property of their respective owners. If we only knew the do black people have bigger penis rate at which the penis size men earth how to make your dick bigger review porn hentai penis growth is cooling we might calculate back to this time with some assurance of certainty, always, however, on the assumption average penis size when not erect that the earth is simply a hot body cooling like any other hot body such, say, as a red . Well one or two not that much but a bit more and flying becomes more problematic. Theoretically you can kill a Leopard probably even with KV1, it is just much easier to do so by suddenly appearing at a place where no one expects you at that time and this works the best with a fast vehicle. Well technically everyone suffers but you would have clicked on this otherwise. Seems many new players fell to this trap. Also, you're very wrong about Tiger syndrome. One thing to mention is that german 6.7 is actually really good against soviet 6.7, it's the stabilized brit APDS ATGM throwers and impenetrable american T__ heavy tanks that really hurt. Join the Discord Here: https://discord.gg/cgctjTR5hjHope you all enjoy this video/short from an interesting moment in-game! Turret armor>>>hull armor for a number of reasons. If it's perfectly fine as a comparison, then why is CQC fighting the rulewhen GJ is designing maps,while we clearly can make it a more interesting battle if every nation can face their strengths and shortcomings on the battlefield. Unfornatly the 105mm Tiger II was phased out. Every time I play 5.7, I see a lot of Tiger I. And since most Panther drivers know that, they usually just camp. so german jets are not useless compared to their opponents? His vocals stand in contrast with the somewhat polished production. If you would have told me you hit the outsides of the turret face no real angling makes it any flatter than what it is. Are there no third positions or one that is at least more pragmatic? #warthunder #shorthunder Hey! - If its not, he will hide and wait till you cap. But only at long range. Download Free PDF View PDF. Having the Panther 2 in game used to alleviate this problem and give 6.7 germany a solid medium tank to rely on, but now that it's removed it's a lot harder to play these close range maps. Again as stated before in other threads it is an option it is not viable in most instances as you typically just die. . Or a Jagdtiger? the Jumboturret. With no premiums in the medium br.s it is difficult to break even. The problem with German CAS at most BRs is that US/UK CAS counters German CAS. And that brings me to the issues with the economy, the game's economy is soulcrushing, now I do understand that you need people to spend money (and for what it's worth I have), but there is little to no enjoyment for the average player in the game. Thank you for your attention and have a nice day! - If it is a sufficiently big map he will just cap before you even get to see the cap point. And in realistic they are mainly on maps with japan fighting on one side. Isn't it a bit dishonest to completely "forget" to bring out the more negative aspects of the panther? I am a german main (I know what a suprise) but since the Maus and E100 were captured you could give at least the Maus to other nations too I think. Like bombing out caps or sniper ridges. With a few more wins per hundred matches, they'd be at that point. The Arado B-2 has a great flight model, very maneuverable and easy to pull up out of a dive attack. But if you miss me or I see that you are aiming at me, then it is easy for me to get in cover. Hell no, you can still get kills if you have a decent team and play smart. But that doesn't change the fact that the tank have bad reverse speeds,, fit in with all the other bad aspects of the Panther in this game, like bad low speed movement due to the missing regenerative steering. Well you know what they say, the turtle always wins. 'German players' are not somehomogenous group, clearly people play different nations. On 13/02/2020 at 09:16, watch_your_fire said: On 13/02/2020 at 00:46, AnimeThighs said: On 13/02/2020 at 10:33, WilderHans said: On 15/02/2020 at 09:37, Inflatable_CampR said: Addressing Germany's real problems: finding the truth behind "Germany suffers! Born Lucile Randon on 11 February 1904 in Ales, the world's oldest person. - Panther is a medium tank and cheaper to spawn. question. In an one on one battle with one cap point andrough, uneven terrain you will lose against the M18 in your panther 8 out of 10 times. If you pen hull, his gun is still operational and he just shoots you. Because heat rounds don't care about armor. I just read this post and simply had to react because you draw all the wrong conclusions.And BTW i also played all three major nations. Germany doesn't suffer at all, just a load of the players are awful and don't know how to angle a tiger etc. Add the EBR 1954 Version in the Tech tree, add the French Tiger 1 'Bretagne', add the French stabilised gun variant of the AMX-10RC and AMX-30 in the main tech tree . Usually it's the other way around, the M18 waits around for a target and looks around corners with the third person view camera. He can easily continue flank and pen King Tigers from the side. I wrote Panther II and T-44-100, which are the medium tanks of BR 6.7-7.0, actual competitors to the Cent 3. Also hull down does not stop long 88 or 100mm from penetrating you and kill or wipe out your turret crew. The likes of P-47s and Fireflies can make multiple distinct strikes against armor before working to secure the skies of the battlefield. Has 7.1 second reload (slower than 6.7s of the 105 L7 guns), -6 gun depression, and only 17.3 deg/sec traverse, so it doesn't fit gun handling meta. You can do just as well with a vehicle that has different strengths if you use those strengths correctly. No matter how well you argue or what evidence you cite, you will inevitably be attacked by the people who cling to beliefs of German victimhood if you speak out against it--the believers dont want to hear dissent--just know about that. While the M18 can potentially be used for flanking regardless of tier--this is true of any vehicle--it is also a vehicle that can be wiped out even by lowly 1.0s. According to this complaint, Germanys mobility is insufficient to be competitive in RB GFs, with the greatest concentration of this complaint being focused on the 5.X range. Yes but this is should be fixed for once and for all. Your observations are not a statistical fact or some sort of general trend setting. All trademarks, logos and brand names are the property of their respective owners. As for the Panthers' turret traverse, except for the D variant, all are quite well suited for engagement at medium to long ranges. Powered by Invision Community. By The problem is that the faster tank has the advantage of initiative. Just check the loadout on allied planes. At 6.7 the US T series are much more survivable when it comes to being hit. Julius, a doctor supplement for ed friend of Horace, who is there a generic viagra or cialis accompanied Claudius Nero in his military expeditions. Its a fine argument, it fits into the"why would I drive over there to shoot them from 10 feet awaywhen I can sit here 1000+ meters away and kill them?" Meanwhile, in the real world, while the Tiger II is waiting for its gun to steady to take a shot, the Centurion Mk3's stabilized gun lets it point precisely at the tiger's turret-face with swift ease. FRENCH AVIATION TREE IS A JOKE! lol Germany (especially around the BR you're playing at) has literally some of the most insanely OP lineups in the game - packed with tanks / SPAA / CAS spam vehicles with mostly low spawn costs. I've been playing the Su-100P lately (pretty underrated, but could still use a lower BR to match the regular Su-100) and it baffles me how many pumas I am seeing from 5.7-7.7. Lets assume competent players who don't gamble. I have said quite the opposite honestly. Mobility is the aspect that most German vehicles are less focused on than their peers, but this is made up for by the Germans better firepower/armor than their peers. While true a slower tank doesn'tneed totravel very far to find a position that overlooks the positions one wouldplan on exploiting so by the time the fast tanks shows up the slow tankis waiting in its position ready to fire as the fast tank usually has to travel across half the map and the slow tank only has to travel a quarter of the map or less to counter. I'd certainly replace the Hs 129B-2/MK 103 if the Bf 110G was a Tier III vehicle. (well until last update and the introduction of M41). That vehicle is more treating. Has 3 crew and carousel, so it doesn't fit survivability meta and it's armor can be penned by 9.0 premiums. Theirs only one stabilized apds atgm thrower and its premium. Step forward progressively, oh how I haven't seen that argument before. I take the 110G into every BR range before radar SPAA. 1. MidCii; Jul . buy panzer ii amp luchs the world war ii Second, almost every US tank has .50 cals for AA purposes. This is why nobody takes anyone who believes in tygor syndrom seriously. Meanwhile, what is expected of the high skill T__ player? All trademarks, logos and brand names are the property of their respective owners. The only situation where the Panther would in a clear advantage is a plain map where the M18 has no chance for covered approach. "situational" any map with a rock, wall, or building allows you to take advantage of the stabilizer. I agree that between 8.7 and 9.7 Soviets have overall bad mobility, but i strongly disagree that T80B, T80U and BMP3 have bad mobility. Mobility: The complaint: One of the most common complaints that is leveled against the nation of Germany is a perceived lack of mobility. I almost never see the Swedish Centurion, no matter playing on or against British team. Pretty immune to 88's. This is a major drawback and makes this tank so special. Furthermore, using simple math, after 2 Minutes the number of places where the M18 could be is much bigger than the number of places where the Panther could be. Weaponry, Considering Im an experienced player who has done quite well in some Germany tanks that have been thoroughly derided, Id lean towards saying youre justwrong. Aside from the pre-nerf Horton flying wing, Germany really hasn't had a plane that could both match allied CAS's ability to make multiple strikes against hard targets and simultaneously hold its own in securing the airspace. According to the complaint, the mobility differential between the Germans tanks and the others tanks means that the Germans simply cannot compete in RB GFs. If by any standards the Panther is far more stable due to its suspension, what does that make the Sherman series, especially in a CQC situation where the medium low speeds are to its' advantage? Terrible survivability (carousel and 3 crew). Then you have very bad chances to win as USA, since you won't be able to flank them. A COMMENTARY ON THE BOOK OF LEVITICUS - Bonar. Germany has a p-47 just like the allies? I haven't used mine for like 3 months. Better late then never, only took them 5 years to catch up. A Pz IV F2 can also lol pen a KV-1, Churchill or ARL-44 and probably knock them out with one shot from either front or side. This line comes up in many venues and references many things--but what does it mean? By The first two points can be resolved by reforming the German tree to not have the jumps that it has and by requiring players to unlock more vehicles to progress to such higher BRs (as other nations have). He usually has like 5 different options. In a standard WT match, do I try to command people using the chat to go to certain positions which they won't do? You don't want that then that is fine, noted. However it does not. Long 88 can one shot a T__ but in my experience you have to go for the shot trap, which is a risky shot. All trademarks, logos and brand names are the property of their respective owners. Are you serious? I've whacked Leopards with my SU-5-1 but didn't have much to do with the vehicles. It bounces off and does little or no damage when pens. Sometimes it works. - He will go around you (most maps allow that) and pop up in you rear. It's not a perfect strategy as it weakens the cheeks, but I've had a lot of smart american players turn their turret at the last second for an easy bounce. Germany is being denied their AA roof mounted guns because "They would make no difference". And yes theoretically the bigger and slower tank could try the same tactic, just that it would take him much longer to react, he would be easiert to spot and aim at, and you would give the enemy more time to shoot at you when you cross open terrain. Panther speedcross country on flat terrain is42km/h. And that is harder than the relatively obvious strategies for Soviet and American vehicles, especially when the allies can grab the objectives AND the flanks and wait until they win by ticket bleed. All of these things are important, with at least one being exceptional for a vehicle to be any good generally. (Oh how many times I have shot the IS6 turret from 400m and all I did was turn the gunner yellow) Plus they have things like T44 which are very bouncy to the 88. So if you fall for him turning the gun and you still shoot the breach rather than the side of the turret thats a player error and isn't much of a arguement. 2. Nobody likes uptiers and Germans are no exception--but theyre not suffering any more than anyone else. (This topic will likely be flooded by people doing exactly this or otherwise trying to hijack the thread.). Which is situational and works only on several maps. Making it for the M18 much easier to make assumptions about the position of the Panther than vice versa. The most disappointing part is that the 7.92s seem to always be under performing and relative to the 13mms too. Last thing is that Centurions have a lower top speed than king tigers but have much better acceleration and reactionary mobility, and the ability to fire on the move means they have overall greater effective mobility on the battlefield. As the matter relates to teams' statuses and ticket bleed, the capture point's alignment once captured is ended from the moment it is captured until the moment that hold on it is broken or the game ends. When you have 2 identical vehicles performing differently by a noticeable margin with the only variable being the people who play them, it really makes you wonder. 1. It's just so effective and has a good size-able ammunition pool. Also the air tech tree actually is borderline OP too. Germany continues to suffer in War Thunder! It depends; the objectives can be just as deadly for lightweights too. And T are not impenetrable unless you're downtiered and there are spots you can go througg although theybare easily covered up. Allied CAS is absolutely by far and away superior, only the 37mm armed Bf-110G is superior to allied cas, it's actually really good. 20112022 Gaijin Games Kft. Armor. panzer ii ausf l luchs mit bildern panzer panzer ii. But to argue the tiger 2 has a worse hull than the T series is a joke. Two world wars and two pandemics are just a few of the many historic events witnessed by Sister Andre during her 118 years. Just an observation maybe its just me. I'll give you a half point for this one as I clearly said the M18 will head to your spawn after it caps, Well if it makes you feel better stranger things have happened. By Just shoot turret for an easy penetration anywhere within 2km, and watch as the king tigers ammo gives a nice firework display. That being said I wanted to ask them to get answers, because for me it is important. You can skip APCR because it won't do much. Pretty unfair that almost all US tanks have those AA HMGs. Sell, buy or trade War Thunder Items and Services here. Meanwhile the M18 will be sitting in the ambush or going around the cap into your back because he know that you will not dare to cap. In general, German win rates are in the 40s even at their lowest and this means that they're near the balancing point (the 45-55% range, being within +/-5 of 50%). Fapadoska, 1 hour ago in Questions to the Team. Armor is lolpened by DM33 and higher. Nope, reversing back takes forever, turning as well and will expose your sides, running forward to flank doesn't work either. Japan's OP type 90 has been given an equal. That's your personal preference. There are many, many more ways in which Germany is claimed to suffer--these are just a few that I chose to address for this first post. Not possible. (and enjoy the performance of APCR). Germany should rely on armor but more often than not it is countered with vehicles that can lol pen. (small note, i forgot the T__ has cast armor, it's frontal protection is actually 190mm at it's weakest. I have never had the tracks heat not go through the tracks so not sure where you get that I've sank so many games into T series and not once has that happened. Not enough apparently the M41 appears to be shrouded in mediocrity that is the M41. german 6.7 is actually really good against soviet 6.7. Which is why its more rewarding when they pull it off as they had to put more effort into making it work and that's what people need nowadays a challenge. I invite others to list other claims of alleged German suffering so that those can be talked about. Powered by Invision Community. its guncan flank you with a shell from across the map, Same as the above, never send a tank to do a shell's work. For special purposes I still have my Ju-288 with its two SC1600 bombs. If you want to do well with germany, I'd recommend playing 5.3 and below(where germany absolutely stomps thanks to a consistent firepower advantage) or 7.7 and above(where germany stomps due to a mobility advantage). (Petrol tanks under turret basket magicallyexplode when turret penned). Even I--a German player myself--am commonly hounded over this, despite presenting a great deal of strong testimony thats based on many years experienc. 4. By That advice is not about any narrative, its about the best way around that shortcoming. This is of course a burden if you're in a CQC situation where the APDS will easily pen your frontal armor. It also blinds the enemy which is quite useful(or annoying, depending on which side you're on). Thats because the Germans don't have more modern light tanks in the game. It works wonders unless you have to make a regressive retreat. The funny part is that you say thatbut you give absolutely no reasonfor why you saythat. If your going to pull the hvars are the best thing out their it shows how little you know. And 5.7 tanks can pen American tanks. Samuel Tito Pessa. Download Free PDF View PDF. What makes teams such an acute problem? This puts Germany in a lose/lose position when choosing their plane to call in. You don't exactly want to pull a pivot turn when in city combat, with it's horrible side armor. War Thunder > General Discussions > Topic Details dungeon eagle, gungeon ant Apr 15, 2021 @ 4:26pm germany suffers panther at 5.7 (it should be higher) Last edited by dungeon eagle, gungeon ant ; Apr 15, 2021 @ 4:52pm The author of this topic has marked a post as the answer to their question. Now, lets address the imagined problems of Germany so that the real ones can be identified and addressed! I like Wallonia, I hate Kursk. Allied CAS has way more firepower than Axis one. Despite the hype, Allied fighter-bombers are not hypermaneuverable UFOs when they're laden with their payloads--they're easy meat for things like the Bf 109s and La-5s. Yeah, i totally wonder why you never see people playing them, but I still see the same ol team comps of 90% tiger 2s. And the you said the atgms you made it sound like they were common place. The Tiger IIs' cannons do not bounce like M18s on trampolines, no matter how much people pretend that they do. If a person is to look at other trees and seek to understand the problems they face, far worse MM can be found. The Panther by contrasthave close to no reverse. If he sees that you do dare to cap he will just rush back because he has the speed. Centurions have a 2-plane stabilizer that for some reason acts like it's from 2020, which lets you use hard cover or play behind a hill, only popping your turret out briefly to take easy shots. Mobility is simply king in this game. Contrary to popular belief there is more then one way to exploit this knowledge. King Tigers are too slow and obvious to really bother with going for caps, and their armor isn't reliable enough to use as a spearhead for an attack. Justifications for War and Peace in the Scriptures of the Abrahamic Religions. Even so, better reverse speed on competing tanks does not in itself put those competing tanks (like M18s), as they can have drawbacks of their own. Germany has so many vehicles that some are clunkers and others are very OP.
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