Please call Schluter-Systems Can I install Schluter-KERDI over drywall in my tiled shower? The KERDI-SHOWER-TS features an off-center drain placement and is 1-1/2" (38 mm) high. Both (actually, all three) methods will produce a workable shower, if done properly. Thanks! It's important to note that latex-modified thinset can still be used between the membrane and the subfloor because it is not impervious. While you can lay tile directly over a concrete slab using thin-set adhesive, dont make the mistake of applying tile directly to a plywood subfloor. KERDI shall be separated at existing expansion, structural, and flexible edge joints. The seam in the middle I would think could be whichever you prefer. Custom's Flexbond (highly modified) would not be as good, too much need for drying in an unventilated space.Bill. I never had done drypack before and it was pretty simple to do. Once you install KERDI over the drywall panels, they will be completely protected from the water and vapor in your tiled shower. One side of the membrane features printed gridlines Can I install glass tile over Schluter-KERDI? I would just prime with a latrex bonding agent, let it dry 'till tacky and go for it. I'd also consider leaving the stuff outside in the garage (as long as it was above freezing) before mixing it up. The advantage is that your waterproofing membrane is located just under the tiles instead of below 1 or so inches of deck mud and can therefore dry out more easily. For acid-resistant coverings, use an epoxy adhesive to set and grout the tile. - M.K. You have a plastic moisture barrier behind the walls, and a PVC liner under the floor. clean, dry no lose paint etc. "I have learned so much thanks to the searchable articles on the FHB website. As an alternative to KERDISEAL- PS/-MV, KERDI-FIX or other suitable sealant can be used to seal pipe protrusions and protect moisturesensitive solid backing panels at the mixing valve. Tile will go over the kerdi. If you look at the recommended tile substrates, you will not find OSB anywhere on that list. Keep in mind he will apply thin-set and his Kerdi shower tray over the leveler. Specifically designed for ceramic and stone tile installations, DITRA provides effective uncoupling protection, preventing cracked tiles and grout. Your saving a lot of money by doing it yourself instead of hiring it done. I knew better than to start another thread! Silicone or sand caulk in the corners since its a change of plain. In jobsite conditions and over a long time, who knows. There are two methods to seal KERDI to a bathtub. Since thin-set mortar works over almost any substrate, the Kerdi system can be used over drywall, plywood, or the various cement boards mentioned above. The anchoring fleece is embedded in thin-set mortar to provide a mechanical bond to the substrate. houndzilla Sorry about that. Building mud screeds along that line is fairly simple, just pile a row of mud against the wall so it covers the line by about an inch, then using a straight board, press the mud down until you can just see the line again. Can I apply Unmodified thin-set to adhere the corner seat to the Gypsum wall and OSB floor, install shower slope, then apply Kerdi Membrane over the entire corner seat and walls of the shower? I'm of the opinion now that I'll use what's best for the stick with the subfloor. Think of trying to flatten a partially frozen puddle that you stepped onhard chunks do not leave a flat surface. First Kerdi can be installed on drywall or cement board. However if installed on drywall it is only protecting one side. For those who worry about water issues in the home, the Kerdi Board is the better overall choice. The time between liquid and starting to set can be quite abrupt. This includes dirt and dust. Continuing Education for Architects & Designers. Kerdi eliminates water damage which can lead to mold and mildew. That can be mitigated by using DITRAs waterproofing capabilities. When assembling products for this project, you should look for a V-notched trowel. With a tray, it has to be perfectly flat and level. If so, you haven't done anything wrong. Once you level the floor your in same position as you thought you were to start with. Profile that forms a splashguard in curbless showers. Made of polyethylene, DITRA also serves as a waterproofing layer that protects moisture-sensitive substrates, such as plywood/OSB. Waterproofing strip: Schluter-KERDI-BAND, 6. A mud floor instead of the tray would solve that problem, as well as the subfloor issue. Makes it real simple to install and when done right good for 50 years. Thanks Kevin. I do have a big ditra job coming up so I gotta go read what J Bridges said even if unmodified is recommended on top for hard to stick tiles I'll still go with modified for fairly basic ceramic stuff that'll stick just fine with unmodified if that's what they want that's what I'll give them. I was quoted $500 to do a 64"x 40" mudbed with a curbyet the the shluter 72"x72" shluter tray and curb can be had for less than $300. The KERDI-SHOWER-TS features an off-center drain Work the KERDI into the mortar by applying pressure to the membrane with the flat side of the trowel (held at an angle) in smooth, diagonal sweeps. I will look into it. Thanks for the reply Robert. I am nearing completion of my tile shower project. over expansion joints or construction joints. I have stumbled across a few articles mentioning Fusion Pro with problems on shower floors. The gridlines printed on the surface are helpful for neat and quick installation. Quick update to everyone that has been of help to me. You can do it either way. Some suggest marble is not recommended for showers. Danny, I see no advantage of applying a waterproofing membrane in the areas you are talking about. Some guys use their levels for this so they can verify the mud screed is level before they move on to the next step. You don't want a ridge there. How long do I have to wait before I can install tile on the Schluter-KERDI membrane? Kerdi does admit that you can use cement board. You only need a pair of scissors to cut the DITRA uncoupling membrane. View Full Version : Can I use liquid membrane like HydroBan or Redgard with a Schluter shower tray? A-holes. Not so good side to side. To ensure the floor is clean, wipe it with a wet sponge. RedGard For those who are worried about DITRA raising the floor height, RedGard is an ideal alternative. RedGuard is not harder to adhere to. "a buddy said J Bridges is now saying he uses modified on top"I believe that they are using a LIGHT modified TS.But I don't remember the brand.. No. Once its flat, please turn to the V-notched side and trowel it so that you see grooves on the surface. All shower/tub areas should have concrete board (I prefer hardiboard). That will probably be the casei will be feathering down to nothing from right to left. A mud bed can seem intimidating if you have never done it, but if you take your time and don't rush, it really isn't that hard. The Kerdi seems very well adhered to the plywood. Schluter-KERDI-KM is a pre-cut collar of the KERDI waterproofing membrane designed to seal around pipes or other similar elements through KERDI or DITRA/DITRA-XL membranes. Then fill in the rest and slope it to the drain. Is there a likelihood this would change over time (i.e. DITRA performs all these functions while still providing adequate support/load distribution for the tile covering. Royce,do you like the TEC better than Kerabond? A 1/4" x 3/16" (6 mm x 5 mm) V-notched trowel or the Schluter-KERDI-TROWEL is recommended.. How do I seal Schluter-KERDI to a bathtub? With the KERDI-SHOWER-TT thin shower tray on a wood subfloor, you can build up the rest of the bathroom floor by installing either a 5/8" or 3/4" plywood/OSB panel on top of the wood subfloor along with DITRA or another Schluter-Systems uncoupling membrane. CEMENT based only !!!!! Start your subscription today and save up to 70%. When discussing the steps of installing DITRA over OSB, we mentioned that you should mix up the thinset so that its not too thick or thin. The 10-in. Thin-set mortar takes time to cure. I would prefer to seal the KBRS corner seat with Kerdi. A couple of questions: What color grout are you planning to use? Once you install KERDI over the drywall panels, they will be completely protected from the water and vapor in your tiled shower. We use cookies to ensure that we give you the best experience on our website. "I am the master of my fate, I am the captain of my soul." Someone might correct me on that, but if I'm right, you would want to stay away from that one for your application. Mark the slope or high point on the walls. On the clean OSB floor, measure and cut the DITRA, ensuring that it fits perfectly. Im installing Schluter-KERDI over drywall in my shower. All shower/tub areas should have concrete board (I prefer hardiboard). Follow the Wood Underlayment installation guidelines as found in the Schluter-DITRA or Schluter-DITRA-HEAT Installation Handbooks for fastening guidelines. Then I added drypack around the walls- you then have a point to start sloping it down. First Kerdi can be installed on drywall or cement board. DITRA allows for ceramic tile application over single-layer plywood or OSB subfloors on joists spaced up to 19.2" (488 mm) o.c. Use your rubber mallet to help things along. 4. The thickness of the tile assembly is minimized by using Ditra, which is only 1/8-in thick. Yes. Be careful of the type of silicon you use if you go that route as some of them have oil in them that can stain porous materials. Makes things a lot easier. There are different types of OSB, from OSB1 to OSB3. How to Market Your Business with Webinars? The type of bonding mortar used to apply KERDI must be suitable for the substrate and must penetrate and engage the membrane fleece. To ensure the floor is On the surface, OSB may look fragile. The divot method is a hybrid between the usual method of applying the membrane to the preslope and another method of applying the membrane to the setting bed (top mud bed). Schlter-KERDI-BOARD is simply cut to size with a utility knife. The other steps required for a successful installation are listed or glitter, etc.). Contact us: 888-472-4588 would tiles start falling off the wall !!) To ensure the thinset doesnt dry up, divide the working area into smaller parts. So, it is safe to install DITRA over OSB. Feel free to move it if necessary. Note: Water testing of the assembly Due to its thin perimeter height, the KERDI-SHOWER-TT is an ideal choice. They are OK as long as they aren't rolling a piano over it this month. KERDI-BOARD can be installed both vertically and horizontally using the screws and washers in our hardware assortment. Invictus, by Henley. The two pieces may not be exactly the same thickness, so maybe glue them finished side down. I'm not so sure any of this makes a difference? Continuing Education for Architects & Designers. Acrylic is one of the most durable materials used in the shower construction industry, and for good reason. For inside and outside corners, adhere pre-formed KERDI-KERECK-F corners. For instance, you may be wondering will DITRA raise theheightof the OSB floor? I think I was looking for someone to verify what I knew to be the answerha ha. Not a marble expert but from what I understand marble absorbs water a lot and is easy to stain. And I have been elected to be the one. Thinset is the wet base that you first trowel on the plywood to make the tile stick. Does Schluter-KERDI waterproofing membrane have a front/back to it? (Explained). That will eliminate/slow down theloss of moisture from the mortar. You can also use Schluter-KERDI, a membrane made of polyethylene. This allows the cement to properly hydrate, resulting in a strong, dense bond coat. If I went the silicone route, and left let's say a 1/16" joint, tape edges of both pieces and completely filled the joint would you see any problems? Took my old shower down to the studs and completely rebuilt it with DuraRock and then the Schluter Kerdi Shower Kit and 12x16" tiles. If you can tile a shower you can do a mud bed. Its relatively thin. With KERDI-BOARD, you can build custom vanities, shelving units, bathtub surrounds, free-standing partition walls, kitchen islands, and so much more. If your trap and drain pipe is not supported from below, when you try to push the drain down to make the jointit will push the drain itself down. There is never 'the answer' but 'an answer'. Plus, get an extra 20% off with code GIFT20, Fine Homebuilding Issue #313 Online Highlights, The Fine Homebuilding Interview: James Metoyer, 10 Steps to Install Crown Molding on Cabinets, Choosing the Right Construction Tape for the Job, Expert insights on techniques and principles. Thus, additional measures must be taken to protect wall cavities from water and vapor penetration. Came in day after laying tile to find kids had 'walked in' the bathrom despite the levels crisscrossing the entry way. Install over a wide range of substrates, including plywood/OSB, concrete, gypsum, heated floors, etc. Prefabricated shower tray: Schluter-KERDI-SHOWER-T/-TS/-TT, 3. Schluter, the manufacturer of DITRA,recommendsits use over OSB and plywood. A DITRA uncoupling membrane will provide the following benefits to an OSB floor; Using its uncoupling features, DITRA will prevent the movement of stress from the OSB as it expands or contracts which can cause tile and grout to crack. With the KERDI-SHOWER-TT thin shower tray on a wood subfloor, you can build up the rest of the bathroom floor by installing either a 5/8 or 3/4 plywood/OSB Measure carefully, as it's not always possible to seat the drain onto the riser except when it is coated with the fresh cement. The classically-inspired KERDI-DRAIN is offered in a variety of grate finishes and accommodates a wide range of tile thicknesses. We are trying to lay slatetile in an entryway. Hey Jim, one last question. Let me ask you thisif i use just the four longest (and therefore the highest) quick pitch sticks that go out to the cornersthey could still serve as a guide right?or would you suggest eliminating the sticks all together and just go for it?.How long will this dry pack stay workable? He uses Custom's Versabond under Kerdi without any problems. Also, apply the acrylic mastic between the I have been told several times that I should redgard the wall seams of the CBU and the seams around the curb as well as the perimeter seam between the setting bed and the CBU.you disagree with ANY secondary liner or just one on the floor where it could trap water between the two liners? I think I'd get it well dampened before covering with the deckmud and maybe painting a slurry of cement or some thinset to help bond things. Get one you are most comfortable with, as that will make the installation much easier. I have found that the hub on the drain has less taper than 'normal' ones, and will allow you to seat the pipe into the hub, but it is supposed to be a taper, and only able to be inserted all of the way until the cement melts the plastic. Install KERDI-SEAL-PS pipe seals at showerhead, body sprays, etc. ;). As I wind down my shower project, the wife aka boss are in grout mode. Ceramic Tile Advice Forums - John Bridge Ceramic Tile. Ouch. KERDI has been evaluated according to the Standard Method for the Testing and Evaluation of Volatile Organic Chemical Emissions from Indoor Sources Using Environmental Chambers, Version 1.1 for California Specification 01350 and found to comply with the VOC requirements. Which Thinset for Kerdi? Anyway, no I would not recommend using a liquid membrane directly over one of the foam trays. Its a lot easier to do it right the first time and cheaper also. Designed specifically for ceramic tile and dimension stone installations, DITRA serves as an uncoupling layer, waterproofing membrane, and vapor management layer that accommodates moisture from beneath the tile covering. Hey every group has to have one. You can use a vacuum for that job. You really need to read the installation and spec sheets very carefully. In fact, it's advised to use this product on drywall in your bathroom before laying tile and other materials. I will heed that advice. Anyone have any experience with this? or OSB Joists, I-joists, or trusses Ceramic or porcelain tile Unmodified thin-set mortar DITRA-HEAT or DITRA-HEAT-TB uncoupling membrane and heating cables Latex p.c. Since KERDI is impervious, it does not deprive the mortar of its moisture. Mix a bit more than you think you need and get after it. Without a waterproof membrane like Kerdi, water and moisture can seep through grout, tile and other materials and end up damaging wood studs and subfloor. I figured on 2 but had to pick up one more later, but my local tile shop has a wide variety of brands in stock. The substrate must be clean, even, and load bearing. Only use Schluter screws and washers to attach KERDI-BOARD to the studs. Do I need an uncoupling membrane on plywood? In high moisture areas, you can imagine that it is very important to consider this water-resistant feature and functionality so that it will help your projects be more complete. I would not use a liquid membrane over a Kerdi tray. The Kerdi system is installed using thin-set mortar. View Full Version : kerdi foam shower tray over OSB. Did the article get this detail grotesquely wrong? Uncoupling and waterproofing membrane: Schluter-DITRA, 4. If you must tape Schluter-KERDI over Solid Backing for Walls, Scott McGillivray on Waterproofing Principles using Schluter-Systems, How to Waterproof Connections to Fixed Building Elements. For all the substrates listed in this Handbook (e.g., gypsum board, cement backerboard, etc. The only time I've used Ultraflex with a Schluter product is when I adhere Ditra to a plywood substrate, if you put Ditra over a SLC you need to go back to unmodified. ?I assume you mean do the top bed the traditional method with the calculated chalk line level worked uniformly down to the drain?? You should be good to go anytime now. How thick is Kerdi membrane with thinset? Doesn't matter, though. say that I expect to be a life-long subscriber." Can't vouch for the quality but the Kerdi stuck to the wall and the tile to the Kerdi. This means: A minimum of 5/8 nominal plywood or OSB thickness installed over joists on 16 centers. The time to dampen the Hardi is before you put thinset and tile on top. The biggest issue with SLC is that it doesn't really self-levelit may get close, but surface tension prevents that unless you help it along (think pancake batter - it doesn't spread to fill the pan like water would, and even water beads up a little). We use cookies to ensure that we give you the best experience on our website. Cut KERDI to size prior to application. The simple answer is yes. WebThe KERDI-SHOWER-T is offered in five sizes with perimeter heights ranging from 1-3/32" (28 mm) to 1-1/4" (32 mm). Instead, the plywood preparation is done so that it is made water-resistant and more adhesive suitable without using a primer. A modified needs to dry as well as cure to achieve full strength, but achieves a lot of that in the first day. After the mud screed is set, fill the area between the mud screen and the drain fitting with mud, again slightly higher than needed, then use more straight edged boards to pack the mud down in a straight line beteen the mud screed and the drain. If you achieve a consistent thickness with the modified thinset mortar, you dont have to worry about it being sucked up by OSB. However, Im using Kerdi membrane instead of Showerseal coating. Support answered that they recommend modified. Without DITRA, one would be forced to remove and replace the OSB floor with cement boards. Schluter recommends different sizes. That's what it was designed to be applied over in most applications, but I'd use 3/4" ply for the seating area. Is this going to be a mud job? Prior to setting tile, wait 24 hours to allow for final set of the mortar before testing to ensure waterproof performance of the assembly at seams and connections. Ideally I would like a fold down slatted wood seat mounted on the wall. I can confidently We are going with a grey grout, either delorean gray or light pewter. The latter is ideal for structural and load-bearing applications such as floors. Over a concrete subfloor use a bonded mortar bed of appropriate thickness to build up the rest of the bathroom floor. In general, modified thin-set mortar is not recommended to set ceramic and stone tile, including large format tiles, over the KERDI membrane. Since my walls are still open the sweating should be tolerable.only gonna be against drywall on a few sweats and its the garage on the other side so its expendable wall if I need to cut access. Dam up any area you dont want/need the leveler to go into. 6. California Specification 01350 is referenced by various green building standards and rating systems. Ditra can be installed over a variety of subfloors including concrete, plywood, OSB and radiant heated floors. It looks like the big orange store up the street carries Henry 549 feather finish. Do I need to tape the joints between panels before installing the KERDI? Even though OSB3 can be used in humid areas. Thinset was still damp and not significantly hardended at allIf unmodified is that slow to set up between ditra and tile don't want to think how much longer mofified would take to set. KERDI is ideal for use in tiled showers, bathtub surrounds, residential steam showers, and other tile applications in wet areas. and since the plastic did absorb any moisture . it did cure as quick and the "excess" moisture could screw up the grout. They can easily be cut to size with a utility knife, or may be extended with dry-pack mortar. How do you prepare OSB subfloor for tile? Have everything set to go BEFORE you mix it. Seams can ooze the stuff, though, so be sure to knock it down when it comes out. Schluter-KERDI-SEAL-PS and Schluter-KERDI-SEAL-MV are prefabricated waterproofing seals with over-molded rubber gaskets designed for protrusions through KERDI, DITRA, or DITRA-XL membranes and protect moisture-sensitive backing panels at the mixing valve. residential bathroom installations designed for foot traffic. In general, if the subfloor for tiling is made up of plywood, you don't have to use a primer. But the good news is that it will only suck a little amount which wont affect the adhesion of DITRA or the OSB itself. Schluter- KERDI-DS is a bonded waterproofing membrane and vapor retarder with very low water vapor permeance for use in continuous-use steam rooms and similar applications. 2. the Kerdi pan with the corner membranes. Mix up the thinset with water until you get your desired consistency. and KERDI-SEAL-MV at the mixing valve. A minimum of nominal plywood or OSB thickness installed You do want to ensure that the riser pipe is as close to plumb as you can get, and block the bottom of the trap so that it won't move. Danny, this the same master bath you have an earlier thread about? from what I first gathered the problem was with grout cracking. Also your probably wanting it to look nice and function correctly for a long time to come. IMPORTANT: Stud spacing exceeding 16" requires the placement of additional studs. Waterproofing corners Schluter-KERDI-KERECK. DITRA and DITRA-XL provide uncoupling to prevent cracked tile and grout. Waterproofing strip seals abutting joints of membranes and building panels, Waterproof, multifunctional tile substrate and building panel, Point drain with integrated bonding flange, Bonded waterproofing and vapor-retardant membrane, Single-component sealing and bonding compound, Contact us: 888-472-4588 Ceramic tiling can be installed onto 23/32 OSB subflooring panels where the panels are supported by 16 o.c. A bunch of products can be used over an OSB floor. SawStop's Portable Tablesaw is Bigger and Better Than Before, Podcast 530: PRO TALK With Architecture Student Phillip Schladweiler, Podcast 529: Cold Floors, Galvanic Corrosion, and Siding Over Board Sheathing. Schluter-Systems requires the use of Schluter SET , ALL-SET , FAST-SET, or an unmodified thin-set mortar meeting Can I use a premixed thin-set mortar to install Schluter-KERDI and tile in my shower? Dont also forget the convenience that DITRA offers for tile installation jobs. PVA white glue, Acryl 60, weldwood, the list goes on and one.Any tile supplier will have something. We are trying to lay slate tile in an entryway. A water test is a quality control check performed on any shower installation before setting tile. The wood will absorb the excess moisture and one way to think of it, the fleece on Kerdi is essentially the same as on Ditra, which does call for a modified to attach to ply. Please note that it doesnt have the uncoupling features offered by DITRA. Use unmodified thin set to Furthermore, the maximum on-center spacing for the screws and washers is 12 inches. WebWhat Mortar for Schluter Kerdi & Ditra Nathan Wallace 7 years ago I am getting ready to install 12x24 tile in my shower and floor and going to be using the Kerdi membrane over As a waterproof underlayment, DITRA has an open rib structure that neutralizes movement in a load-bearing substrate such as an OSB floor. Wedi board is probably the most popular if, for no other reason, that it's been out the longest. joist spacing. What they allow and what they recommend are two different things. A quality unmodified thinset should be used and mixed with a latex additive. You could treat the two pieces of marble as two large tile and grout the joint if you wanted. Not good. Thanks Kevin. Does unmodified thinset stick to plywood? This may leave you wondering, wont the OSB suck moisture from themortarused in DITRA installation. The Laticrete 255 KERDI is ideal for use in tiled showers, bathtub surrounds, residential steam showers, and other tile applications in wet areas. specific product you want to buy. Calculate all your membrane requirements for your project. Is Kerdi band necessary? Thanks for the reply, I appreciate it. The use of really cold water might give you an extra minute or two.
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